Checklist #3

[wells119]

hey vet ever payed alone in the dark 5 it has some good music, the game even comes with a cd

[amf357]

As far as texture quality versus performance goes, I think you guys might not quite understand a few things.
From what I read, you removed all the normals from the models? The whole purpose of normals is to make low poly models look like high poly models without the performance suffering. They make 2D parts of the skin look 3D by manipulating the light around it.
I.E. Adding depth to cracks in pavement, that arn't really cracks at all but just lines on the 2D texture.

Rather than making a 4000 poly model become a 2000 poly one and removing the normal, you may wish to bring it down to 1500 polies and put the normal back on it.

Sorry if you already knew this. I just felt obligated to tell you this. If you want to know how to make normals (I assume you already do) I'll give you the link to the tutorial.

Don't get me wrong, your zombie models look great. Better than any zombie valve ever made (Left 4 Dead isn't out yet, though), but normal can make them look good without compromising any to very much performance.

[Blubbles]

Oct 20, 2008 13:12:51 GMT -8 amf357 said:

As far as texture quality versus performance goes, I think you guys might not quite understand a few things.
From what I read, you removed all the normals from the models? The whole purpose of normals is to make low poly models look like high poly models without the performance suffering. They make 2D parts of the skin look 3D by manipulating the light around it.
I.E. Adding depth to cracks in pavement, that arn't really cracks at all but just lines on the 2D texture.

Rather than making a 4000 poly model become a 2000 poly one and removing the normal, you may wish to bring it down to 1500 polies and put the normal back on it.

Sorry if you already knew this. I just felt obligated to tell you this. If you want to know how to make normals (I assume you already do) I'll give you the link to the tutorial.

Don't get me wrong, your zombie models look great. Better than any zombie valve ever made (Left 4 Dead isn't out yet, though), but normal can make them look good without compromising any to very much performance.

Quite a few of us already know what it is but thank you for shedding the light for some of us. And Vet Is using normal maps on stuff like the Combine Soldiers. Exciting isn't it?

[IneptGuard]

Oct 20, 2008 13:12:51 GMT -8 amf357 said:

As far as texture quality versus performance goes, I think you guys might not quite understand a few things.
From what I read, you removed all the normals from the models? The whole purpose of normals is to make low poly models look like high poly models without the performance suffering. They make 2D parts of the skin look 3D by manipulating the light around it.
I.E. Adding depth to cracks in pavement, that arn't really cracks at all but just lines on the 2D texture.

Rather than making a 4000 poly model become a 2000 poly one and removing the normal, you may wish to bring it down to 1500 polies and put the normal back on it.

Sorry if you already knew this. I just felt obligated to tell you this. If you want to know how to make normals (I assume you already do) I'll give you the link to the tutorial.

Don't get me wrong, your zombie models look great. Better than any zombie valve ever made (Left 4 Dead isn't out yet, though), but normal can make them look good without compromising any to very much performance.

Please, in no way will you be prosecuted for stating facts, opinions or your concerns here as long as you do so in a polite manner.

I personally wouldn’t be too concerned with that, remember that Vet sometimes makes posts in a rush and he doesn’t always take the time to explain what he is doing in-depth. He is trying his best this time around to get everything write and I don’t think that he would make a mistake like that.

The only other thing to remember is that there is always a method to the madness. If he alters the Normals I’m sure that there is a perfectly logical reason for it.

Or Vet may have finally lost it.

[veteran_gamer]

amf you seem seasoned when it comes to textures or your knowledge of them, i'll tell you what, I did make normals for the combine soldiers and the terminator/neo heavy combine_e's were pretty much already set, I only added an envmask to the terminator

but anyway heres what im t yring to say, if you'd like to advise me on what to do as far as other things that could use normals like the w_models, I'm very open minded and always willing to learn or correct the issue, when I upload the first release candidate, you can try it out, and tell me what you think is needed, you seem smart and you make sense, so I'd love to improve OUTBREAK with your knowledge if it can be done.

The reason why I removed normals and other stuff to a lot of the models, was because the .vmt values were not smod friendly, and in some cases even ugly, some cubemap syntaxes dont get along well with smod, so i figured we'd start from scratch near the end phases of outbreak (when the SP campaign is almost complete). Point is, you got knowledge, I'm listening, noone is easier to work with than I

thanks for the input

[veteran_gamer]

Oct 19, 2008 13:15:14 GMT -8 wells119 said:

hey vet ever payed alone in the dark 5 it has some good music, the game even comes with a cd

I've played the oriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiginal one back when i was like 9, one of the coolest games ever, i think wing commander iv was out with luke skywalker (mark ham...ham..something, mark hammy haha, f'k it), and other than that, Im guilty of not playing any other Alone in the dark series

[amf357]

Well that's an alright reason for removing the normals. I'd love to try out the release candidate, and if it helps get this mod moving I'd be willing to assist.


On an unrelated note, did you know decals could use normals as well. I'll make some modified blood decals with a normal on them if you want me to (to make them look like gears of war or bioshock blood) and you can tell me if you like my work.

This will definately have: A modified base texture.
A normal.
This might have: A grey specular mask for the oily blood from bioshock (thats some nasty stuff )

If this works, Outbreak will be all the more awesome.
Like I said, I'll get it to you sometime. Tell me if you like it and I'll do some other things for you.


Blood From Bioshock

whatspikelikes.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/bioshock200708261254317yr0.jpg
www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/screenshots/blood.jpg

[veteran_gamer]

wow that looks really awesome, we could lower the tint a biiiit more so its darker red, to match the rest of the gore

what im wondering is if the reflective properties seen in those screens can be applied to the A.) blood-wall decals and the B.) flesh wound decals

i have not experimented with this at all, but im thinking in theory it would use the same template the "wet rocks" use in lost coast, or other games near beach areas

anyway thanks for the ideas, and hopefully we can use your stuff if it looks good in-game for the good of all outbreakers heh

right on

[amf357]

You misunderstand. I didn't create that blood. It's what I'm trying to replicate.
And yes, the shininess can be put on flesh wounds as well as on sprites (shown in second picture) and on blood splat decals. However, the sprites may prove to be difficult, because a sprite is a 2D image: Combine Ball, blood puff, fire, explosion.


What I'm editing is the decals (blood on the wall or on the ground.. right behind the part that got shot. I think editing the blood splat that comes up would be editing the sprites, which I know little about adding envmasks and such to.

Of course, its not going to be that pink. Bioshock had wonderful oily blood, but mine is going to be darker (and have spots that are very dark to represent gore). It will have a specular mask that is about midway between white and black ( 100 % white = Dull 100% Black = Shiniest possible. Different areas on the specular mask can be different tints of grey to suit the situation. The reason for this would be to still include a cool level of gore for those who think that the blood spray that goes off from headshots is corny. Since there are at least 7 blood decals, they will all be different looking, and have unique nastiness to them.

As I said, that isn't actually blood that I made, its what I'm trying to imitate.

[veteran_gamer]

I fully understood, which is why i asked how exactly you planned to make the blood shiny or "oily" as you put it. I was asking if you were going to apply the same rules to the .vmt as other reflective surfaces, or if it needed a different or more complex approach because of

"DecalModulate"
{
}

also the flesh wounds are
"Subrect"
{
"$Material" "decals/decals_mod2x"
}

and im not sure which vmt variables are compatible with these special textures, thats what i meant, perhaps I didnt explain it clear enough

I was asking if you had already experimented with this feature you are suggesting, and if you had success.

for example, putting $selfillum 1 on a 3dscope will cause checkers and sometimes crashes, certain textures and vmt values have restrictions

again to make sure im clear this time, Have you successfully created, ported or tested decals with the special reflective properties you suggested?

:]

[amf357]

I havn't successfully created the shiny effects as of yet, but I'm going to try diffuse rather than I don't understand the vmt format in depth either. Some of my programs crapped out on me (the one that saves vtf's in dds format to make them normals) and I'm having trouble finding the original link to it. However, I think there are multiple ways to go about this.

My goal again is to add depth to blood and give it a reflective look. If you know anybody who is an expert with vmt knowledge, his input would be valuable. If not, I'll just have to burn through another tutorial.

edit: I fixed the above stated problems with things crapping out on me.

[IneptGuard]

Reflective decals you say… Hammer to the rescue!

I believe there are only three in all of HL2. One that was left over from the beta version of Hl2: decals/decalborealispuddle001a

This one I don’t know if it was used I HL2: decals/decalkleinerpuddle001a

And this one (vet you should recognize this): decals/decalsplash

Maybe you can reskin these or just bust em open and see what makes shiny.

[amf357]

Alright thanks. I'll check it out, seeing as how I'm stumped atm.

[amf357]

bump:

I'm sorry to admit that I can't seem to find a way to get the blood to have an oily effect. I know how its done, but I don't know the specifics of how its done on decals. I tried all the envmap vtm commands, and nothing but a purple and black box pattern.

I'm not saying I'm done trying. I'm just saying not to expect me to figure it out.

But if you want me to do any other photoshop stuff, I'd be willing to.

[Sickle]

Amf, have you seen this?
accept.hopto.org/smod/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=486

[wells119]

pretty blood, also vet try looking at models from dead space come pretty cool enemies in there

[ClaneLord]

AMF go look through FPSB, there may be lots of tutorials or examples.

[amf357]

I checked FPS Banana. Lots of great tutorials, none for adding envmaps.
As for that thing with the shiny blood, it would help if it was in English.. but I did understand enough to know that the blood was made with ep.. i.e. the orange box engine. I have the orange box, but so I might be able to figure it out. Don't get your hopes up.

[ClaneLord]

Look around www.fpsbanana.com/spritecats/16 section for examples.

[ClaneLord]

Hmm...what SMOD Outbreak community/devs think about this www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=47122 as suggestion for metrocop replacement?

[amf357]

Fire sound for the P 90. Deku Scrub made it, sounds good. Now check that off your list already.
www.fpsbanana.com/sounds/download/4857

Just press the green letters that say download.

[thattrunkmonkey]

Oct 28, 2008 16:07:15 GMT -8 wells119 said:

pretty blood, also vet try looking at models from dead space come pretty cool enemies in there

...
Does that blood look like snot to anyone else?
...
no?
...
Oh well.

[smokey]

Just a suggestion, you should try to incorporate this into the game: www.fpsbanana.com/skins/42049


I think zombie dogs would be cool

[veteran_gamer]

wait a minute smokey smoke

banchee is the fast_zombie right?

if those dogs use the fast zombie animations, I'll put them in there, along with some nasty dog sounds

i dont currently have the time for that as we speak but ill look into it

[veteran_gamer]

updated with a link to media showing weapon animations

[clatus]

Looking awesome, I just hope it can come out before this summer

Anyways I've got a question vet, how does the "climbing" work for the zombie2s that you showed us on youtube, will it work on most buildings? Can you spawn them and they will climb? Because that feautre is certainly great and will add variety.

[veteran_gamer]

to answer your question, they will climb buildings if the target they are focused on is on top of any sort of architecture that is noded properly with climb nodes, they also have to be aligned with extreme precision, this is because the zombie2's technically HAVE no climbing animation, command or event, which is what makes the fact that it's been fluked the way it is now that much more sweet.